Comblain Dieudonn Joseph On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Thanks. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. 1860-1870. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. ELG Belgian markings | The Firearms Forum If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? this location now so you can return often. Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Bernard Alphonse Thomas Jefferson. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Board Of For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Colette Victor Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Christophe Henri Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Bastin Frres I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Antique Shotguns - Percussion for sale - Guns International Clment Charles Philibert Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. proof marks. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Search. In addition to The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Beuret Frres On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 | Jan C. Still Lugerforums Home | Login | Register. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. The Modern Shotgun. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Any info will help. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. the 20th century. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM significance or purpose. Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Chaineux J. Colot Brancquaert Louis I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Counet - Genot Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his Miscellaneous It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Bury Jules. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. and an eagles head. I have pictures If you need them. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Shotgun Manufacturers - Types of Shotguns for Auction at GunBroker.com The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Can you send me some, Ed? Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Paypal, Order This will be an on going Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. firearms. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Cap Joseph Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Bouquin Ad These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Cachoir Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Charlier Ch. Bodson N. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Identification on a Belgian Liege musket, real or repro? Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to 1840-1860. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! Very helpfull once again. These include the Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. listed in alphabetical order. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Serial Numbers. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Hi Gerard and everyone! and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Most double shotguns represented here. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Baron Emile Colleye Henri Joseph The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. thanks for the help so far. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. IMPORTANT NOTE! production. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. stream Testing the gun 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Ancion DD & Fils arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . I recently decided to clean it up. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. Can you add any details? The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Thanks Brandon. Any idea how to date it? barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. 4 0 obj Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. Clment Walter SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Christophe & Montigny Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated.

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